BBC breakfast interview
From Mmc
Transcript of Interview by Sian Williams with Tim Nedas and Lord Hunt on BBC Breakfast Time
Wednesday, 7th March 2007
Dermot – Some of the best and brightest junior doctors are being left without a job because of the controversial new recruitment scheme. That’s the claims of many in the medical profession and now the government have promised a review.
Sian – In a moment we are going to be speaking to the Health Minister, Lord Hunt. He’s joining us from Westminster. First, Tim Nedas. He’s a third year SHO. and you’re struggling to find a job really, aren’t you? Explain to us what’s happening.
Tim – That’s right. Currently the situation is that training in the UK used to be a long winded process in which one became trained as one felt able to perform duties. Several years ago a decision was made to modernise medical careers which itself is not necessarily unsound. The result of this has been that the selection process has been altered. Initially the selection is that they are trying to cram 30,000 doctors into the training posts of 22,000. Next issue is that those who do not get training jobs are going to be put into glass ceiling jobs which are not necessarily lawful and, furthermore, do not allow anyone to express themselves professionally.
Sian – Right, glass ceiling jobs means basically?
Tim – If I’m unsuccessful in this round I’ll be given a fixed term specialist training appointment – if I’m very lucky – and that will mean that after 2 years of that I can no longer apply for any training posts in the UK.
Sian – So there are two issues here – one is that there are too few jobs for the people who want them and the second is that the system allocating those jobs seems to be flawed.
Tim – but there’s also a wider issue which is with the number of junior doctors on the floor going down on 1st August – no one knows who is going to be doing the on-call rotas overnight/at weekends; and, as far as I am aware you can’t logistically cram 9 doctors into the space of 15 when the EU time working directive limits those doctors to 56 hours per week. So the decision of the West Midlands consultants not to appoint at the interviews on Monday …………..
Sian – yea, they walked out of the selection board, didn’t they?
Tim …………was based both on the future safety of their patients because they did not think that the most appropriate candidates had been short listed for interview and also because they felt the selection panel was invalid.
Sian – what will happen if you don’t get a job?
Tim – Well, already I’m faced with not having an interview and my morale and the morale of several thousand people is completely sapped but if we don’t get a job I don’t know what will happen. I’m a young man, I’m looking to have a career, which allows me to have a family and educate my family and the doors have been closed on me by the NHS. Sian – Tim, thank you very much for coming in. Let’s address some of your issues to the Health Minister, Lord Hunt.
Lord Hunt, thanks for joining us. Well, you heard what Tim was saying. It doesn’t look like he’s going to get a job. He’s done all this training at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds and he might have to go abroad.
Lord Hunt – Let’s be clear. There’s always been competition for speciality training. Indeed, one of the problems that we faced in the past and why we‘re making reform is because there was so much dissatisfaction with the old way of training doctors as it was very patchy. You have some people in SHO jobs waiting for specialist training not being able to do so. The reforms that have come in have come in because of strong input from medical bodies, the medical Royal Colleges to have a much more cohesive training programme. Now, we are only in the first round of those appointments. Only good quality applicants will be appointed. Many more people will be short-listed for the second round and many more doctors will be appointed then to go into those specialist posts.
Sian - but the point is you were warned last summer by the BMA that this system was flawed. Not only did you not have enough jobs for the doctors but the selection process wasn’t going to work and we were going to be left in this mess. Why didn’t you take action last summer?
Lord Hunt – There’s been an awful lot of discussion with the BMA, Royal Colleges and other medical bodies. Let me stress that that the medical Royal Colleges had a very heavy input into the process that we are now organising. Clearly there have been some teething problems in some parts of the country and some specialities. We met the Royal Colleges this week. We agreed to set up an independent review under the Chairmanship of Professor Douglas. That is meeting immediately. It will report by the end of the month. We will take very seriously their recommendations and I hope that ………..
Sian – Sorry to interrupt, Lord Hunt, but I’m just wondering for the doctors who are out there, people like Tim, who are just wanting something to be done and are just worried what’s going to happen to his future. Why can’t you do something now. You don’t need a review – the system is in chaos. It’s not working. Change the computer system and do something about the fact that there are 8,000 doctors there that don’t have jobs.
Tim – and, Lord Hunt, last night the Department of Health press statement said the selection process needed urgent review. How can you possibly appoint some doctors in this round under a system that you yourself, or your department, agrees is flawed and then give me an open house at a 40% run of the jobs in the second round? It’s preposterous! The first round should be scrapped. I’m sorry to all those trainees who have interviews – many of them supported Collette Marshall and her colleagues over the weekend. You cannot possibly say a system is flawed and allow it to run. It’s a disgrace!
Lord Hunt – We met the Royal colleges this week……..
Tim – I’m aware of that Lord Hunt – they did not want us to scrap the round one process. People are being interviewed at the moment ………………….
Tim – but ‘want’ and ‘sensibility’ are different things, Sir.
Lord Hunt – If I can just finish – many of those appointments have proceeded very satisfactorily. To simply stop it would just cause more confusion and uncertainty. It’s much better that we do this very quick review. That we then inform the process as a result of it. And, of course I understand the need to restore confidence amongst the doctors who are applying and that is our aim and that is what we’ll do.
Sian – So we’re going to get action within the next month?
Lord Hunt – well the aim is for the review to meet immediately. We’ll take note of what they say and they will report in full by the end of the month.
Sian – By the end of the month we will see changes. That’s what I‘m trying to get at. When are we going to see changes?
Lord Hunt – Oh, if changes have to be made we will make them as soon as possible
Sian – Lord Hunt, thank you very much, and Tim Nedas, thank you very much.
Tim – Thank you.
Sian - and Good Luck
Tim - Cheers
