Talk:Story : Marcus and the manor
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Current Discussion
Assumptions, and investigation
- I'm assuming the player's have twigged, out of character, how the bossy bishop and his braggards learnt about the situation in the tavern.
- That once the knight runs off, Marcus has something else he intends to do, such as seek out others to talk to, root out the bishop's source, prepare for his journey the next day, or pounce on the bishop or lord once they emerge from their council.
- That you know you can freely insert additional things in the middle of the text, e.g. additional conversation prior to the knights departure, assuming it doesn't affect later story.
Although the avenues you have investigated thus far have been wrapped up, they can still be extended, and their are other sources around: Peasants, servants, the odd knight, etcetera, though you will need to seek most of these people out.
Anyway, let me know roughly what Marcus's goals are, if they aren't readily apparent, and I shall try to get the story moving accordingly. Once you leave the manor, I'll set to work on Warren. --James\\Talk 02:28, 3 May 2006 (PDT)
Bishop's Castle to Church Stretton
14.6 miles - so effectively 5 league / 5 hours walking. That route is around the south end of the Long Mynd, so not over any major hills, or via anywhere they would have bumped into party members.
As far as the Saxton map is concerned, (shown on Around_Church_Stretton) Bishop's Castle is just off the bottom-left (south west) corner of the map. Lyddum is only 2km away from it.
I don't have all my Shropshire books with me today, but I'll try to put an update about it up tonight).
- An excellent update; much better information than I had. I'd found a sentence on some website that talked about the name being erroneous, and actually being the Archbishop's property, but your article clearly refutes that. Five hours walking, three and a half or less doing scout pace, and lots less if you have access to a horse - especially a galloping horse.
Old Discussion about this thread
Preliminary posting
- I wrote a bit of preliminary stuff for Diarmait just to get us moving and to give a flavor of what I think the relationship probably is. It can be edited as needed, of course. --JBforMarcus 06:55, 27 March 2006 (PST)
It looks good. If you require any other grogs for this thread, then Perikles can play those as well. I don't envisage this being a very grog heavy thread, though it is likely to be an NPC heavy thread... I shall endeavour to start this thread off on Thursday morning, though would like for the main 'morning after' thread to have been resolved before we proceed very far into it. --James\\Talk 09:55, 28 March 2006 (PST)
Diarmait
I'll be generally trying to keep a low profile with Diarmait, with the occassional inconsequential action just so you can see I'm still there. If you want to engage him in conversation or for him to do something specific, let me know.--Perikles 10:47, 4 April 2006 (PDT)
Also, I will using the font colour seagreen to describe his Irish Gaelic.... on account of green things and the Irish... and the fact it shows up and is not too unobtrusive and italics have been grabbed for the far more frequently used latin. Um... any comment or objection to this - let me know, either here or on my talk page, or both. --Perikles 10:47, 4 April 2006 (PDT)
Marcus's Order
Marcus's order began in 1216, and in 1217 tried to spread itself through continental Europe, but notably, not England. Thus, it is likely that Marcus is amongst the very first Blackfriars to wander this green and pleasant land. Just so you know. :D --219.174.96.24 00:44, 27 March 2006 (PST)
- all the easier to fake it:-) --JBforMarcus 06:54, 27 March 2006 (PST)
- "A little before 1232, probably in obedience to an order of the provincial chapter held in 1230 at Oxford, a community of Dominican Friars settled in Shrewsbury. (fn. 1) Their earliest known benefactor was the king: he visited Shrewsbury in May 1232 and the friars secured shortly afterwards a grant of 30 oak trees and the stone which lay in the Severn under the bailey of Shrewsbury castle to build their church. (fn. 2) They were the first friars to reach Shropshire and were certainly welcomed with gifts by local benefactors, though traditions about their 'founders' current in the 16th century are confused and unreliable."
- A History of the County of Shropshire: Volume 2 --OldNick\\Talk 04:06, 27 March 2006 (PST)
- What is the order represented in the Ellis Peters books featuring Brother Cadfael (sp)? --Rencheple 04:35, 27 March 2006 (PST)
- Benedictine - the Abbey of St Peter & St Paul (Shrewsbury Abbey) was a Benedictine foundation of 1083 --OldNick\\Talk 05:17, 27 March 2006 (PST)
- Well, I originally only meant for Jeff to be aware that he should incorporate the fact that the order is brand new and relatively unheard of in these parts into his posts. If he is looking for a better in-period order, then the Order of St. Francis is also a good choice. --James\\Talk 10:36, 27 March 2006 (PST)
Church Authorities
Church Stretton lies in either the deaconry of Condover, or the deaconry of Church Stretton (if it existed in the 13th Century). Those deaconries lie in the Diocese of Hereford, founded in 627, and it appears that nothing really changed over the years, possibly because of the strong divisions formed by the local terrain in the area around church stretton.
The Language of the Church
This sentence, "He was used to that though and it seemed to be what Church was all about" got me thinking - in the 13th century, Church services were still conducted entirely in Latin, right? --Rencheple 09:08, 15 April 2006 (PDT)
- That was my assumption, along with the bible being exclusively in latin, leading to Diarmait's beleif that religion is supposed to be incomprehensible to the unitiated.--Perikles 00:58, 16 April 2006 (PDT)
side conversation
[I'd been assuming that we've been enjoying the hospitality of the Church rather than the Manor, if you follow me. But if the Church is this close, is the Priest more or less part of the household? More fo the point, where do we go for breakfast?]
{A church parish was a Saxon manor, and Churches were built and owned by nobles. This manor plan comes from an archeological dig in the south of England. In Norman times, the church was changed, but in the case of Church Stretton, the manor did not move, as there isn't a better place for it to be...}
['Manor' is such an interesting and variable term :-) In any case, though, I will make a couple of assumptions here and you can correct them if need be.
- The manor in question is inhabited by the local lord.
- Ordinarily, though he may not actually be resident at this moment in time.
- The priest has a small cottage, as you say, but his food comes from the Lord's kitchen.
- All bread must be baked in the Lord's kitchen. The priest buys his food with tithe money, and eats the same fare as the local peasants. He was once a peasant himself.
- This sounds off to me, but I'm not quite sure why. I'm gonna have to look - it doesn't matter for the game too much, but now I'm curious. The idea of buying food with tithe money doesn't sound right, since I don't think there was a strong money economy, I would expect tithing to be in kind, and while the bread must be milled at the Lord's mill and baked in the Lord's oven, that still leaves a lot of other food that needs to be cooked somewhere - does the cottage have a kitchen itself?
- All bread must be baked in the Lord's kitchen. The priest buys his food with tithe money, and eats the same fare as the local peasants. He was once a peasant himself.
- Some provision has been made nearby for pilgrims, visiting religious and so on who are not of high enough estate to be put up by the Lord as a matter of course.
- There aren't really any pilgrimmage sites nearby that I am aware of, but there are two stables in the immediate area, and the Tavern, all of which are desireable accommodations.
- Marcus is being put up in such a place and is eating his meals with the priest at his cottage.]
- That's fine.
