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Do we need a Giantkin language?  Couldn't they simply use Giant as their language? -Citizen Joe

Should they really get Feldarin (common) as automatic?  I realize it is needed for adventurers, but far up north, the race rarely sees Feldarin. -Citizen Joe

== Formatting quotes ==

I was wondering if there is some way that we can have journal entries appear in a different font of background or something so that they stand out as such. -Citizen Joe

== culture ==

"The Giantkin live in small tribes of 30- 300 Giantkin ruled by councils of elders or chiefs. Generally they don’t any inheriteable class system – but there is an exeption – thorough the lands there are three or four Giantkin who are best described as storyteller-lords. "

I think this needs a lot more work. I deduce from this that the position of story-teller lord is passed from father to son but that all other positions (chief , elder etc) are assigned purely on merit. However I had to read it three times before I came to that conclusion and I am not even sure that was the intention. Also this sounds somewhat like a high-level prestige class with the following requirements:

* giantkin race
* must have studied for X years at the feet of another story-teller lord or be related to one.
* there must be a vacancy
* various bardic requirements

For what it is worth I agree with the comments regarding language.

== fairs ==

"In the days long past, when the Giantkin had a greater sense of unity, there was a tradition of tribes travelling and gathering near the lord of the area where there would be an occurence every five years that could be best described as a very big fair – lots of trading, court disputes of great importance, competitions for the best wrestlers, archers, singers, storytellers and many others. During the Plague, one of the lords wanted to revive the tradition and call together the gathering, but only two tribes appeared. Nowadays these fairplaces are long left behind, only wind, birds and reindeer going there and lords live in the swamps and islands."

Is there a better word than "fair"? For example "moot" if that is not already overworked in fantasy contexts.

== ritual cannabalism ==

This probably has long term consequences on disease etc. Is this something that needs to be developed? Do shamans eat the brains of deceased shamans to gain better access to the spirit world? Does eating the flesh of a plague victim subvert the giantkin's immunity to the plague?

== gaps ==

Nothing on alignment. First of all need to search the forums on that. Lot of stuff in the thread "Giantkin write-up version 0.0.1 " which has not moved since November.

== Loose ends ==

Ok, after rereading the last page of the forum thread on the Giantkin writeup [http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5872990#post5872990 here] I realize that we need to discuss some things to finish off these guys.

Once and for all, are they LA +1 or +0?
This begs the question, if they are to be +0 are they balanced enough?
If we make them +1, have we gimped them too much.

One way or the other, what will the initiative penalty be?

Weathervision: in or out?  I had an idea, might be too big of a bonus, but rather than Weathervision which helps them in obscure periods of poor visibility due to weather (yeah, like a DM makes that happen every adventure), how about we give them a bonus against glare.  Maybe a bonus against certain bright light affect spells?  Either that, or give them low-light like Wunderhund suggested and call it good.

Ok, now to debate.  Their balance aside, how does everyone feel about playing a +1 LA character in general?  [Silas woz here!] Do you shun them or embrace them?  Does the benefit of it outweigh the fact that as a spellcaster with +1 LA you are a level behind other spellcasters.  Does that pigeon-hole them into only playing melee classes?  Discuss.  --[[User:MostlyHarmless|MostlyHarmless]] 10:37, 10 March 2009 (PDT)

First of all I have to say I am not very happy with this is as a forum. As I understand it there is nothing to stop me manipulating your posts, which I would never do of course! 

I actually play a lawful-good Tiefling monk of Pelor so I have some comparison. A tiefling monk is quite low on hit points and tieflings are much better suited to rogues. The combination is quite challenging but is so far my favourite character ever. Whether people never or rediculously often want to play a race is one measure as to whether that race is balanced. I have tried to develop tools to explore the balance[[http://www.silasthemonk.org.uk/cgi-bin/Report.cgi?rm=report&sr=3#grapple][question]] but I suspect it may actually be necessary to package some of these questions up and post them on the general homebrewing board.

My own suggestion for weathervision is to treat it like blindfighting. So the Giantkin would roll twice for concealment if it was due to natural or magical fog of any description. I suggested this on boards sometime back.
--[[User:Slias the monk|silas the monk]] 11:17, 10 March 2009 (PDT)

I thought it was decided that they shoot lightning from their eyes :)  Seriously though, A decision on weather vision requires an assessment of what happens without the weather vision. What are the normal effects of rain, snow, wind, glare etc.?  If an effect grants concealment, then it doesn't to a Giantkin.  If an effect has a limited range, then double that range.  If an effect has a penalty to some vision related skill or ability, then remove the penalty.  

Unless snow blindness and glare off the ice (and sea) is already covered in an existing rulebook, then I think those rules should be detailed in Tears of Ice.  And also include means of ameliorating the condition. [[User:Citizen Joe|Citizen Joe]] 13:35, 10 March 2009 (PDT)

I think that ritual cannibalism should be noted, but the exploration of why and the release of spirits and shaman stuff should be detailed in the Tears of Faith Supplement.  Don't get hung up on those details just yet. [[User:Citizen Joe|Citizen Joe]] 13:37, 10 March 2009 (PDT)