Talk:334

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== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
Since section 1 of [[303]] has been modified by [[313]] and by [[326]] if it passes, only sections 2 and 3 of [[303]] will be valid. Since it is not possible to combine two nearly identical rules into one, per [[111]], this is the only alternative. --[[User:TomFoolery|TomFoolery]] 12:30, 26 November 2006 (EST)
Since section 1 of [[303]] has been modified by [[313]] and by [[326]] if it passes, only sections 2 and 3 of [[303]] will be valid. Since it is not possible to combine two nearly identical rules into one, per [[111]], this is the only alternative. --[[User:TomFoolery|TomFoolery]] 12:30, 26 November 2006 (EST)
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Debate will end for this proposal at 12:00, 04 December 2006 (EST)
== Debate ==
== Debate ==
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The problem I see with this proposal:  Who's to say what is the number of votes required to pass or fail?  We currently have 15 players in this game.  Of those, 6 have full votes the next time they vote; 9 have half-votes.  So to guarantee a rule passes, it must have 5 1/2 votes.  BUT...new players could join the game! So there's really no way to determine the number of votes required to pass or fail without setting a time deadline for the vote. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 09:13, 28 November 2006 (EST)
The problem I see with this proposal:  Who's to say what is the number of votes required to pass or fail?  We currently have 15 players in this game.  Of those, 6 have full votes the next time they vote; 9 have half-votes.  So to guarantee a rule passes, it must have 5 1/2 votes.  BUT...new players could join the game! So there's really no way to determine the number of votes required to pass or fail without setting a time deadline for the vote. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 09:13, 28 November 2006 (EST)
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[[326]] sets a time deadline for voting, so [[334]] doesn't need to, it also indicates who is eligible to vote on a proposal.
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:"2. The person proposing the rule change shall call a vote at the end of the debate. The debate period can be cut short by the proposer with the calling for of a vote. Should the proposer fail to call a vote within 14 days, the proposed rule change shall be dismissed. If a vote is called, it will end when all registered voters, as indicated on the Census as of the time the vote started, have voted or when it has been 24 hours since the last vote has been cast on the given proposal." --[[User:TomFoolery|TomFoolery]] 11:01, 28 November 2006 (EST)
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Okay, maybe I'm dense, but I just don't quite see the point of this proposal (at least, of the section we're discussing).  If the time period defined in [[334]] ends, then it's over - anybody can already declare an end to voting and enact the rule by [[116]]....Heck, we've been doing it! [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 12:01, 28 November 2006 (EST)
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Straying perhaps into the ridiculous, I see a weird loophole with clause #3:  If a player really wanted to be a butt and screw things up, they could delay the game indefinitely by voting "erroneously", then waiting 29 minutes and voting "erroneously" again, and so forth ''ad infinitum.'' [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 12:07, 28 November 2006 (EST)
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I believe that I have fixed the loophole, as far as the need for this proposal, it is intended to fix the inconsistency between [[303]] and [[326]], by removing the first part of [[303]]. Sections 1 and 2 of this proposal are the same as sections 2 and 3 of [[303]].
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: Okay, I get it now. Thanks for the explanation. And yes, I believe that fixes the loophole. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 13:54, 28 November 2006 (EST)
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Before I vote, I was wondering if anyone could give me some feedback on rule [[326]].  As of right now the statement declaring that a vote shall end at **date and time** is meaningless.  Also, calling an election based on all registered voters includes inactive voters so I don't foresee any time in the near future when we will get 1/2 of all registered voters being involved.  I would also like to see the '24 hour' rule on closing a vote be extended to 48 hours.  Assuming this amendment is approved, is there any opinion on amending [[326]] in the future? --[[User:Tucana25|Tucana25]] 13:39, 4 December 2006 (EST)
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:Let's move this discussion to [[Game-direction]]. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 15:03, 4 December 2006 (EST)
<!--END DEBATE-->
<!--END DEBATE-->
== Vote ==
== Vote ==
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Debate is closed this proposal must now be voted on. --[[User:TomFoolery|TomFoolery]] 07:32, 4 December 2006 (EST)
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I declare this proposal approved.  --[[User:Tucana25|Tucana25]] 14:28, 8 December 2006 (EST)
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=== For ===
=== For ===
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# --[[User:TomFoolery|TomFoolery]] 07:29, 4 December 2006 (EST)
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# [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 10:54, 4 December 2006 (EST)
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# --[[User:Tucana25|Tucana25]] 01:46, 5 December 2006 (EST)
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# [[User:Chuck|Chuck]] 14:42, 6 December 2006 (EST)
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#[[User:Mike Rosoft|Mike Rosoft]] 12:29, 7 December 2006 (EST)
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=== Against ===
=== Against ===
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# --[[User:Dayd|Dayd]] 14:04, 6 December 2006 (EST) (my name looks good alone)
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Current revision as of 19:28, 8 December 2006


Contents

Proposer's summary and declarations

Since section 1 of 303 has been modified by 313 and by 326 if it passes, only sections 2 and 3 of 303 will be valid. Since it is not possible to combine two nearly identical rules into one, per 111, this is the only alternative. --TomFoolery 12:30, 26 November 2006 (EST)

Debate will end for this proposal at 12:00, 04 December 2006 (EST)

Debate

Add comments

The problem I see with this proposal: Who's to say what is the number of votes required to pass or fail? We currently have 15 players in this game. Of those, 6 have full votes the next time they vote; 9 have half-votes. So to guarantee a rule passes, it must have 5 1/2 votes. BUT...new players could join the game! So there's really no way to determine the number of votes required to pass or fail without setting a time deadline for the vote. Applejuicefool 09:13, 28 November 2006 (EST)

326 sets a time deadline for voting, so 334 doesn't need to, it also indicates who is eligible to vote on a proposal.

"2. The person proposing the rule change shall call a vote at the end of the debate. The debate period can be cut short by the proposer with the calling for of a vote. Should the proposer fail to call a vote within 14 days, the proposed rule change shall be dismissed. If a vote is called, it will end when all registered voters, as indicated on the Census as of the time the vote started, have voted or when it has been 24 hours since the last vote has been cast on the given proposal." --TomFoolery 11:01, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Okay, maybe I'm dense, but I just don't quite see the point of this proposal (at least, of the section we're discussing). If the time period defined in 334 ends, then it's over - anybody can already declare an end to voting and enact the rule by 116....Heck, we've been doing it! Applejuicefool 12:01, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Straying perhaps into the ridiculous, I see a weird loophole with clause #3: If a player really wanted to be a butt and screw things up, they could delay the game indefinitely by voting "erroneously", then waiting 29 minutes and voting "erroneously" again, and so forth ad infinitum. Applejuicefool 12:07, 28 November 2006 (EST)

I believe that I have fixed the loophole, as far as the need for this proposal, it is intended to fix the inconsistency between 303 and 326, by removing the first part of 303. Sections 1 and 2 of this proposal are the same as sections 2 and 3 of 303.

Okay, I get it now. Thanks for the explanation. And yes, I believe that fixes the loophole. Applejuicefool 13:54, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Before I vote, I was wondering if anyone could give me some feedback on rule 326. As of right now the statement declaring that a vote shall end at **date and time** is meaningless. Also, calling an election based on all registered voters includes inactive voters so I don't foresee any time in the near future when we will get 1/2 of all registered voters being involved. I would also like to see the '24 hour' rule on closing a vote be extended to 48 hours. Assuming this amendment is approved, is there any opinion on amending 326 in the future? --Tucana25 13:39, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Let's move this discussion to Game-direction. Applejuicefool 15:03, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Vote

Debate is closed this proposal must now be voted on. --TomFoolery 07:32, 4 December 2006 (EST)

I declare this proposal approved. --Tucana25 14:28, 8 December 2006 (EST)

For

Add FOR vote

  1. --TomFoolery 07:29, 4 December 2006 (EST)
  2. Applejuicefool 10:54, 4 December 2006 (EST)
  3. --Tucana25 01:46, 5 December 2006 (EST)
  4. Chuck 14:42, 6 December 2006 (EST)
  5. Mike Rosoft 12:29, 7 December 2006 (EST)


Against

Add AGAINST vote

  1. --Dayd 14:04, 6 December 2006 (EST) (my name looks good alone)



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