Talk:Factors of Offence (Theravada)

From Wikivinaya

I wasn't sure if this page was intended as as general introduction to the concept of factors, but it seemed to be. Thought that fleshing out some of these pages might help clarify how to move forward. BKh 18:47, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

True, this was the intention. What do you think, do the factors also have to have a specific causal relation in order for there to be an offence? I believe this is part of it, and that this aspect of the specific causal relation is actually very important. Ajahn Brahm (AB) mentions it in his Vinaya Notes. I don't know about Ajahn Thanissaro (AT) though. greetings DJti 06:41, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

I'm afraid I can't think of what you mean by "the factors also have to have a specific causal relation in order for there to be an offence?" It sounds possible and even probable. If you have time could you give an example or point me to a place in AB's Vinaya Notes (my copy is just word files of rules, so I would need to know what rule)? That seems like something that would need a citation in any case. If you give me some examples from AB I'd be happy to check them in AT. Why don't you go ahead and put something in and attribute it or note that it needs a citation. In any case, I think pages like this may need to have text that is along the lines of, "Some modern Vinaya teachers feel that ..." thus preserving the truth. BKh 08:00, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

The specific instance of it is in Sanghadisesa 1. The relevant passage starts with: When there is an intention to emit semen... Basically it is about if the intention motivates the action or not. Maybe this is based on one of the examples of cases in the Vibhanga? I am not sure. I will incorporate it later. Greetings, DJti 08:35, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

DJti, I like what you have added. Perhaps someone could add some examples. I thought that there were other factors but none came to mind. Perhaps this would also be something good to add if someone knew them and could cite examples. Mentioning more specific rules would be a good next step. BKh 18:33, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

additional factors

I am not sure if the examples of Pr2 and Sd5 qualify as additional factors. If not, then they would be some kind of 'gradations in the extent of completion' of a factor. I put it down anyway, and hope this can be made clearer afterwards.Greetings, DJti 06:49, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

I kept on working with the article, and this is how it now stands. I removed the beginning-bit because it doesn't apply any more. Do you know any more rules which have these kinds of additional factors? Greetings, DJti 09:23, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

Looks great. It strikes me that derived offences might eventually warrnt a page of its own, but for now it makes sense here. I cannot think of other rules that have these other kinds of offences, but I will keep my eyes peeled. BKh 20:43, 22 July 2006 (EDT)