Forum:A noob's perspective

From Vaporstory

I realize that as a total newbie to this wiki, my opinions probably carry little weight against what's been built up over the past month of Vaporstory's existence, yet already this problem has been nagging me. I know that a hybrid Sci-Fi/Fantasy setting was voted upon in this topic, and I'm cool with that, but it seems to me like the whole thing is starting to look a lot like Final Fantasy. As the fourth best-selling video game franchise ever, it's understandable that FF is the greatest source of inspiration that most people have for this genre, but it shouldn't be restricted to just a handful of popular culture sources. Myst is a fine example of a Sci-Fi/Fantasy that is completely original and would make a good inspiration for certain parts of Vaporstory. Other than that, books may be the best things to look to for new ideas and content (come to think of it, there are three Myst novels in print, I rather liked them).

It occurs to me that Vaporstory is a sort of study in group writing. While there are 17 of us at the time of this writing, we can only do so much as part-time writers working in our spare time. If any of the other 16 users are Dungeons & Dragons players, you may know what I'm talking about when I say that the Dungeon Master's Guide suggests creating the world only as you need it. Here we are, starting off with two planets, four continents, six countries, four cities, three oceans, a mysterious island of which there is only one written account yet satellite images have been taken of it, twenty gods, and three kings. How about slowing it down a bit, and working with what we already have? We should each pick a handful of topics and flesh them out properly before getting into anything else. Don't just hastily toss out names and new ideas without putting some real content in them. Also, don't be afraid of contradicting something somebody else wrote; there's not enough that's been written to contradict! Read the pages that link to the one you're working on, and just try to be consistent with those.

While I'm pretentiously throwing out ideas, might I suggest a few readings? For fantasy inspiration, try The Magic Goes Away by Larry Niven, The Darkness That Comes Before by R. Scott Bakker, and the Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia A. McKillip. I'm not so well read in science fiction, but Larry Niven's Ringworld is a classic.

I apologize if I sound patronizing; I know how it feels to have someone come out of nowhere and start criticizing stuff you worked on. --The Acceptable Cainad (Fnord) 22:21, 24 March 2007 (EST)

I find it interesting that you say this seems to be inspired by Final Fantasy. I've only played Final Fantasy once in my life, and I didn't like it very much. I don't believe that Coolaaron, our other major contributor, has played it either. Most of what I've contributed to the site has come from a mixture of my basic understanding of world history and a general mish-mash of fantasy cliche. Perhaps that was also Square's inspiration.

On ideas, I must say that I'm encouraging people not to contribute ideas that borrow too heavily from established fiction. As it is I'm a little worried that Riach is straying too close to the world of Halo, but I trust Avenger when he says that he's making most of it up. (Having never played Halo myself, I wouldn't know.) Inspiration is good, true, but it can also taint one's perspective too closely to an established system of ideas; fresh minds have fresh views on how the systems can work. And, in the end, the history of Earth is a much better source than any fiction, because it has the single most irrefutable proof of all of its plausibility: it actually happened. If we borrow from anything, let it be reality. It's not copyrighted.

I am starting to wonder, though, if you're right in saying that we need to slow down creation for a time. You're not the only one who has suggested this. I'm not sure exactly how to slow down new ideas (short of locking the creation of new articles) but I have been meaning to go back and fill in some of the emptier articles. I must say, though, that it isn't just an encyclopedia we're building here; it's a world, and half of the writing in a given article will probably be based on ideas from other articles; the world gets built from the sum of the constituent articles--the "vapor" that arises when all fifty or so articles and their information is taken as a whole. Only when that vapor is achieved can we finish an article. That's my theory, anyway.

Hmm... so I suppose I'm ambivalent on that point. I think we could meet halfway on it--working on detail in the major, important articles (like Senzanya and Magic in Minerva) and letting the minor ones be stubs that define their role in the major ones. We can't exactly get every article Wikipedia-length before moving on to any smaller ones. I appreciate your opinions, though, especially since you clearly understand where we're going with this. --Wehpudicabok--talk-- 23:54, 24 March 2007 (EST)

Thanks, I appreciate the thought you put into your reply. I see what you mean about trying not to let established fiction color one's ideas too heavily, but the point I wanted to make was that the best way to come up with original ideas, when one is not visited by an otherworldly muse, is to take several different ideas and toss them in a blender until something new pops out. I also agree with your point that we should use reality and history to guide the writings, yet I feel that certain minor twists need to be made on a fundamental level.

Slowing down creation need not be so much about stopping the creation of new articles, but rather trying to avoid creating too many new plot lines when creating something new. To use the metaphor of the vapor, I think of it as the vague, shifting ideas as they exist in our imaginations. It must be allowed to expand into new territory, but if it becomes too diffuse then it loses its mystique. If the world of Minerva is to be created from pure imaginings, then it will need a strong base on which to be built. My suggestions for reading were not strictly there to be borrowed from, but rather to be a diverse set of examples based on a similar premise: "what if the world was actually like this, instead of the way it is now?" The advantage of being widely read in a genre is that it gives one many different models to study and learn from.

Since you are writing from a literary historian's perspective, with a touch of fictional inspiration, I think meeting halfway would be just the thing to do. I've already done some work on Magic in Minerva, so if it's all right with you, I'd like to further apply my knowledge of (real world) mysticism to that article and it's relatives. Politics just aren't my forte. --bDuJNR Fantastic blog. Cool. 04:20, 25 March 2007 (EST)

Well, not to toot my own horn, but I think what I did with Zypox is a decent example of what I would like to do here. Basically, I took what had already been written, and tried to logically determine what it would be like based on the existing information, rather than making up new details to fill in the gaps. It seems I've ended up following your advice, Wehpudicabok. --bDuJNR Fantastic blog. Cool. 04:39, 26 March 2007 (EST)