Uncreation's Imbalance

From Caelwiki

[16:03] *** Herald_of_Armistice has joined #755.

[16:03] Shock: ...

[16:03] Marrin: Greetings.

[16:03] Rimblade: Ah, there you are!

[16:04] *** Crash is now known as Hsarc.

[16:04] Marrin: er..

[16:04] Herald_of_Armistice: Hello

[16:04] Shock: stay if you wish to help solve, leave if you wish to fool

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[16:04] *** Mode change "+v Quin" for channel #755 by Tralin.

[16:04] Marrin: one moment...

[16:04] Herald_of_Armistice: Fool?

[16:04] *** Mode change "+v Herald_of_Armistice" for channel #755 by Lkeas.

[16:04] Herald_of_Armistice: Why would I ever wish to fool?

[16:04] Shock: You have been proven not to be "staff"

[16:04] Shock: not part of this story

[16:04] Lkeas: shock.

[16:04] Shock: yes?

[16:04] Lkeas: we are ALL part of this story.

[16:04] *** Hsarc is now known as Crash.

[16:04] Shock: i know

[16:04] TheSojurner: You seek to kill the truth.... that might be interpreted that way

[16:04] Shock: he can stay

[16:04] Shock: oh no

[16:05] Lkeas: regardless of whether or not he is a staff member he is still knowlegeable

[16:05] Marrin: Interesting...

[16:05] Shock: he can allways stay. we need all the help we can get.

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[16:05] *** Mode change "+v Sonic12040" for channel #755 by Tralin.

[16:05] Herald_of_Armistice: You should not be so preoccupied with this "staff" nonsense

[16:05] Shock: i know

[16:05] Lkeas: kill the truth?

[16:06] *** Takun is now known as Ryo.

[16:06] Herald_of_Armistice: And indeed, as I think Lkeas realizes, I need not help you all solve this.

[16:06] Shock: i no, we like help.

[16:06] TheSojurner: You also certainly like to keep aloof from the community as a whole don't you... ye pursuivant of cessation

[16:06] Shock: we were told you know alot

[16:06] Shock: so stay

[16:07] Herald_of_Armistice: Cessation is not the synonym you should recognize myself as

[16:07] Lkeas: hmm.

[16:07] * Rimblade yawns again

[16:08] Herald_of_Armistice: How have you all been coming along in your self-appointed task?

[16:08] Lkeas: self-appointed you say?

[16:08] Rimblade: Not very well, but we've had a good time of it, and that's alright, eh?

[16:08] Marrin: Not wonderfully, but at least i found an amusing elvish text..

[16:08] Herald_of_Armistice: Yes, Lkeas, self-appointed.

[16:08] TheSojurner: You proclaimer of suspension... know you not that down the road you walk there is nothing but the maw of that you fear

[16:09] Lkeas: what exactly is his walk?

[16:09] TheSojurner: There can be no truce.....

[16:09] TheSojurner: There will be none

[16:10] Herald_of_Armistice: Suspension, too, is not what you should recognize Armistice as. But you have wisdom in your words, Sojurner; wisdom or folly.

[16:10] TheSojurner: Those who seek it it seek a lie that will destroy them. In doing so they serve he who is served by all destuction.

[16:10] Marrin: Herald, what type of peace would you offer? What mechanism can create peace with uncreation?

[16:10] Lkeas: so he will never accept a ceasefire, is that it?

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[16:11] Rimblade: Ceasefire?

[16:11] * Rimblade glances around, but fails to see guns a blazing.

[16:11] TheSojurner: Nothing can....

[16:11] Herald_of_Armistice: Semantics is just a game.

[16:12] Rimblade: So is sophistry.

[16:12] Herald_of_Armistice: It is the thought that drives words that is important.

[16:12] *** Quin has signed off IRC (User has been permanently banned from Caelestia IRC Network (back when you've gotten rid of that virus)).

[16:12] Marrin: So you take the V for vendetta approach.. ideas are bulletproof?

[16:12] Herald_of_Armistice: And Lkeas..

[16:12] Marrin: Not true when ideas themselves attack.

[16:12] Lkeas: yes?

[16:12] Herald_of_Armistice: Or, rather, Marrin...

[16:13] Herald_of_Armistice: Is not the existence or Uncreation the balance of creation?

[16:13] Marrin: The existance but not the activity.

[16:13] Herald_of_Armistice: Is that not equal? Is that not an Armistice?

[16:13] Marrin: Divine creation can balance divine uncreation.

[16:13] Marrin: However, when mortal creation and uncreation is affected by that of the divine, unbalance occurs.

[16:13] Marrin: Uncreation itself when paired with creation causes change.

[16:14] Marrin: And I'm not talking about a few missing keys here.

[16:14] Lkeas: yes, that is the problem, imbalance

[16:14] Herald_of_Armistice: Change, as you will come to find, is the very meaning that drives creation.

[16:14] Rimblade: Nah. Imbalance works itself out in the end, Lkeas- it's whatever's causing it that needs done in.

[16:15] Marrin: Not neccisarily Rim.. when the imbalancing force has become greater than that which it balances.

[16:15] Marrin: IN visiting other relms, the uncreator develops his power.

[16:15] Marrin: He creates such energy in 'devouring' worlds...

[16:15] TheSojurner: Uncreation is not a Natural Balance..... Uncreation is an Anathema

[16:15] Lkeas: hmm.

[16:15] TheSojurner: This is not some delicate scale.... of give an take

[16:15] Lkeas: what IS the natural balance for creation then?

[16:16] Marrin: Uncreation CAN balance creation. However, it is not a needed force if you wish something to exist.

[16:16] Marrin: Change, i suppose, lkeas.

[16:16] TheSojurner: Despite Lord Maxwell's use of the Yin-Yang I assure you that there is nothing balanced in Uncreation

[16:16] Herald_of_Armistice: Change is a result, not a factor.

[16:16] TheSojurner: Creation is SELF Balancing

[16:16] Marrin: Change itself is a variable.

[16:16] Marrin: Er.. never thought of it that way, but i suppose philosophically that works.

[16:17] Lkeas: but if the Uncreator cannot be stopped, how can we bring balance back?

[16:17] TheSojurner: Who says you can....

[16:17] Rimblade: Bah. Change is the result of a dynamic system, but lessens over a period of balancing. When it finally grows tepid, it is reabsorbed, not having the energy to sustain itself. A natural death.

[16:17] Marrin: My question is ... if he cannot be stopped... what is preventing him from merely entering Lore and tearing it assunder without mediums..

[16:18] Herald_of_Armistice: He would like to think he remains discreet from the eyes he'd be ashamed of.

[16:18] Marrin: Surely he has confronted other deities. why would he need mortals.

[16:18] TheSojurner: The being is neither omnipotent or omnipresent

[16:18] Marrin: That makes sense i suppose Herald.

[16:19] Marrin: Yet his power is great enough to tear apart a relm. He has done so before, and I suppose gained energy from each relm devourered

[16:19] Marrin: (too many ers)

[16:19] TheSojurner: He is also vain

[16:20] Marrin: And this slows him down?

[16:20] TheSojurner: You also are also assuming that LORE is his immediate goal

[16:20] TheSojurner: Incorrectly.

[16:20] Rimblade: Then what is his immediate goal?

[16:20] Marrin: Ah.. now we are getting somewhere.

[16:21] Rimblade: (wow, nobody knew someone would ask that :P)

[16:21] * Marrin mutters something about rimblades bluntness...

[16:21] TheSojurner: That is a patently irrelevant question....

[16:21] TheSojurner: As it has no affect or bearing on you nor can it be stopped

[16:21] * Rimblade mutters something about people muttering to much >.>

[16:21] Marrin: His immediate goal? His long term we are.. partially aware of..

[16:21] Rimblade: Too, even.

[16:22] Lkeas: so, what of the self-appointed task, Herald? will you not be participating in it?

[16:22] Marrin: Why does he use agents? Is imbalance a medium for him

[16:22] *** Crash has signed off IRC (Interred: Back in a few minutes).

[16:22] Herald_of_Armistice: Participate? I have no direct need to.

[16:23] TheSojurner: It pleases him to do so

[16:23] TheSojurner: It pleases him to destroy creation with creation

[16:23] Lkeas: so you find no relevance in learning how to use the index?

[16:23] Marrin: Herald, as a personal question, what is your position on Lore... are you perhaps merely a citizen, or a faraway deity, or some other agent.

[16:23] TheSojurner: It also self validates his theory and fear of creations destructive nature

[16:23] TheSojurner: He is no deity....

[16:24] *** Ryo is now known as Takun.

[16:24] Herald_of_Armistice: Marrin, that has no relevance to your matter.

[16:24] Marrin: Its merely a question, Herald.

[16:24] TheSojurner: He is a Pompadour

[16:24] Shock: a preist

[16:24] Marrin: Sometimes, irrelivant things bring more into light. Falerin himself knows i have used such a tactic.

[16:24] TheSojurner: No worse he is a mere popinjay

[16:25] Rimblade: Obviously, one major question remains unasked.

[16:26] Shock: He lied?

[16:26] Herald_of_Armistice: A popinjay? I might find that offensive.

[16:26] Lkeas: Sojurner doesn't seem to think too highly of you

[16:26] Herald_of_Armistice: Apparently.

[16:27] Lkeas: why did you tell me that i did not want your path, Herald? and why are you taking your path, if so?

[16:27] TheSojurner: he is a divisive force

[16:27] TheSojurner: That INSTANTLY makes him detestable

[16:27] TheSojurner: Anything that does not serve the community destroys it.

[16:27] Herald_of_Armistice: I certainly have the potential to be divisive, Sojurner.

[16:27] Lkeas: what has he done to divide?

[16:28] TheSojurner: You tell me Lkeas.....

[16:28] Herald_of_Armistice: And that, is what we call an empty argument.

[16:28] Lkeas: well... besides posting cryptic blogs and confusing people into thinking he's somehow spouting canon

[16:28] TheSojurner: Here then is your argument.....

[16:29] TheSojurner: He who seeks not to unite with the community. He who seeks not to destroy uncreation. Serves uncreation willfully.

[16:30] Lkeas: i see.

[16:30] Herald_of_Armistice: That is not entirely true.

[16:30] Herald_of_Armistice: Using that logic...

[16:30] Marrin: This is the stance of many militists, Herald.

[16:30] TheSojurner: You are guilty of the sin of Laodicea

[16:30] Marrin: While its not extremis... perfect.

[16:30] *** Marrin is now known as Marrin|brb.

[16:31] Herald_of_Armistice: One who seeks not to destroy Uncreation due to one's ignorance of Uncreation does not make one willfully serve it.

[16:31] TheSojurner: You are not ignorant

[16:31] Herald_of_Armistice: I realize

[16:31] TheSojurner: That is therefore a dodge

[16:31] Herald_of_Armistice: But your statement is false

[16:31] TheSojurner: And I maintain that none is ignorant

[16:31] TheSojurner: Except the willfully ignorant

[16:32] Herald_of_Armistice: And what makes you certain I do not help this "community"?

[16:33] TheSojurner: You tell me?

[16:33] TheSojurner: Division helps none.

[16:33] Herald_of_Armistice: I could understand why you might have such thoughts, but not what would make you certain.

[16:34] Herald_of_Armistice: I need not defend myself.

[16:34] *** falz-busy is now known as falz-mad.

[16:34] Herald_of_Armistice: The only explanation for my actions is that I have higher priorities than ridding the world of Uncreation.

[16:35] Lkeas: well. as to the current task then, will you be researching the runes? or sitting back and watching the rest of us work?

[16:35] Herald_of_Armistice: If that makes me serving Uncreation in your eyes, so be it.

[16:35] Shock: Like what tasks?

[16:35] Lkeas: higher priorities? i would love to hear them :)

[16:35] Rimblade: Bathing.

[16:35] Shock: heh

[16:35] Herald_of_Armistice: Sit back, Lkeas?

[16:36] TheSojurner: You apparently persist in a delusion that being itself continues in the face of uncreation

[16:36] Rimblade: No, seriously, 'Saving the World' would be an act of survivial, and thus I would place it at the low end of the scale, whereas bathing would be an act of hygiene, even asthetisism, and thus higher. Which is more important is in the eye of the beholder. Or not.

[16:36] TheSojurner: Uncreation is equivalent to Unbeing however

[16:38] Herald_of_Armistice: How long would you say Uncreation has been present?

[16:39] Herald_of_Armistice: Sojurner.

[16:42] Herald_of_Armistice: Sojurner?

[16:43] Rimblade: Mmm... I think he may be bathing.

[16:43] *** Marrin|brb is now known as Marrin.

[16:44] Marrin: Uncreation was created by creation... in effect. Though its creation on different relms, as i understand it, varies.

[16:44] Marrin: The uncreator was created by the creator on lore. There is only one 'uncreator'

[16:44] Herald_of_Armistice: Correct.

[16:45] Herald_of_Armistice: What's your point?

[16:45] Marrin: You asked how long uncreation has been present.

[16:45] Lkeas: the point is probably that uncreation has been around as long as the uncreator has been alive

[16:45] Marrin: Uncreation in part is an aspect of creation.

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[16:45] Marrin: However, uncreation as its own force, that causes imbalance, has existed primarily with the uncreator.

[16:46] Herald_of_Armistice: And the Uncreator, we know, has been around ATLEAST since before humans.

[16:46] Lkeas: ...

[16:46] Lkeas: the uncreator WAS a human.

[16:46] Lkeas: wasn't he?

[16:46] Marrin: Not a human.. but a mortal.

[16:46] Herald_of_Armistice: How could he be?

[16:46] Rimblade: That depends on which mythos you beleive.

[16:46] falz-mad: e?

[16:46] Lkeas: well... depending on your definition of human :)

[16:46] falz-mad: oops

[16:46] Marrin: Though time is... ignored by him apparently.

[16:46] TheSojurner: he is a human.....

[16:47] Herald_of_Armistice: Humans hadn't been around as a race when the Uncreator first ravaged LORE.

[16:47] Marrin: Of what realm, Sojurner. Is he human, or another humanoid.

[16:47] Lkeas: you mean mankind, Herald.

[16:47] TheSojurner: You engage in irrelvancies....

[16:47] Rimblade: Human in this is ment to refer to any sentiant creature.

[16:47] Rimblade: Meant, even.

[16:47] Marrin: Isnt that part of being mortal, Sojurner?

[16:47] TheSojurner: An appeal to Cosmological Time is also a dodge

[16:47] Marrin: Er, ignore it.

[16:47] TheSojurner: As his arrival is definite and imminent

[16:48] Herald_of_Armistice: My point, Sojurner, was to rebut your statement that I'm deluded into thinking that being continues in the face of Uncreation. If Uncreation has been a present force of millenia, how has being not continued in the face of it?

[16:49] TheSojurner: It has not.. for those he has already uncreated.....

[16:49] Herald_of_Armistice: But that is diverting the subject.

[16:49] Lkeas: he exists outside of time but you do not. perhaps he has simply not chosen to enter your timestream to end your existence yet

[16:50] Lkeas: or any of ours, for that matter...

[16:50] TheSojurner: It is not diverting the subject Herald. It in fact IS the subject.

[16:50] Herald_of_Armistice: No, the Uncreated are NOT the subject, the Created that fear Uncreation are.

[16:51] TheSojurner: If uncreation is not stopped Herald All things are the Uncreated....

[16:52] TheSojurner: And uncreation is omnitemporal

[16:52] TheSojurner: One does not cease merely being.. one ceases to ever have been

[16:52] Herald_of_Armistice: If that is so, than one would think there is no stop to Uncreation.

[16:53] TheSojurner: And the only reason we even know what was that no longer is... is because we exist yet outside his influence

[16:53] Marrin: So lore is not in his influence.. is there some definate way for him to get influence?

[16:53] TheSojurner: You deserve a golf clap

[16:54] Herald_of_Armistice: I know you believe there is no stop to Uncreation, Sojurner, but that is not important.

[16:54] * Takun golf claps

[16:54] TheSojurner: I do not believe anything Herald.

[16:55] Marrin: Sojurner.. what is it that defines his sphere of influence?

[16:55] Sonic12040: Is Lore not in influence because of the messing with time by Makkisar?

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[16:55] *** Mode change "+v Crash" for channel #755 by Tralin.

[16:55] Marrin: is it his followers, or a balance..?

[16:55] TheSojurner: Attention.....

[16:55] TheSojurner: Attention defines his sphere of influence

[16:55] Marrin: I see... so there is no way to control his influence.

[16:55] Herald_of_Armistice: Sojuner, as you are not omnipotent, you certainly do believe things.

[16:56] TheSojurner: You know nothing of my potence or lack thereof...

[16:56] Herald_of_Armistice: Oh, but I do.

[16:56] TheSojurner: It therefore behooves you to not speculate on my nature

[16:56] Herald_of_Armistice: I think it would be very evident of your knowledge by this point.

[16:56] TheSojurner: It is clear you think you know many things..... Herald... but you mostly are full of yon ill wind

[16:57] * Lkeas shakes her head

[16:57] Lkeas: arguing will get us nowhere

[16:57] Marrin: This is true, Lkeas.

[16:57] Herald_of_Armistice: Again I am defending myself, I apologize.

[16:58] Herald_of_Armistice: Believe what you will. While I mortal, I choose to not be attacked.

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[16:58] Herald_of_Armistice: Good day.

[16:58] Lkeas: good day

[16:58] *** Herald_of_Armistice has signed off IRC (Distracted: Herald_of_Armistice).

[16:59] TheSojurner: He chooses not to be attacked... he apparently is more deluded then even I thought

[17:00] TheSojurner: A choice now is it to be made.....

[17:00] Lkeas: i was unaware we had a choice in the matter

[17:00] TheSojurner: You do not.