Oh the irony (Kali)

Hermes-mun:

*peers in*

Frank-mun:

Hey, thanks for coming. :-) I locked this post just to you, because I don't have your e-mail, and before Frank talks to Hermes, I feel I owe you an explanation of something OOC, as a private discussion. In other words, no one can see this entry but you, and I'm not posting this anywhere else.

Frank and Hermes used to talk a bit, and I wanted to explain why I've not had Frank speak to him in a while, because I enjoyed having the two of them talk back and forth. I was thinking about this last night, and because I tend to be very up front, I decided to tell you. Plus, as I mention, I feel I owe you an explanation.

The reason why I have not been commenting on Hermes' journal is because - and this is not meant as a criticism of you personally at all, and I'm choosing my words carefully. You/Hermes RP a lot with some people that have made it a point to express out of character feelings of upset with the Moderators of Sages both OOC and IC. Therefore, I just didn't, and don't, want to risk having Frank talk to Hermes, whether on LJ or elsehwere, and have other people trying to fight with him (or attack him physically), when it's all OOC-based. I've been RPing for a long time - I do not mean this to come off as condescending, and I honestly hope you don't take it this way, this is meant as just me stating honestly what my experience has been - and I see quickly when someone is crossing that line between out of character and in character, and I remove myself immediately from those players permanently. It's a big warning sign in role playing, when you observe, forgive the pun, mercurial OOC/IC blurring. We don't want it at Sages, and nor do I personally want that experience in my personal RPing.

Editor's Note: Oh god, the irony burns. And the passive aggressiveness. And the INSANITY.

Guilt by association. Although actually it's pretty clear she's saying Hermes-mun is guilty of this, which is such a horrible weird lie. This is another instance of the disturbing projection of the problems other people have with her right back onto those people.

That's why Frank and the other mods didn't come to Hermes' party, and I should have offered a fuller explanation at the time, rather than just refusing. The fear was that it might just been trouble for Frank and the other mods....this is continued below.......Here is where I'm going to be as direct as Frank. I've also withdrawn because of Hermes' sniggering at Frank and other people. Frank, in canon, isn't bothered by stuff like that at all; he has different priorities. But sniggering comes off to me personally as unappetizing, because one definition of the word is expressing snide disrespect, and my interpretation is that it sets up a theme or mood that is just not something I see myself personally involved in when RPing. I actually started to wonder whether it was originating as OOC problems with me. I usually don't RP with the characters at Sages who tend to be that way. It's not to do with the players, but their characters. Let me clarify: we have quite a few characters at Sages who are sarcastic, confrontational (such as Frank, obviously), and less than pleasant in their originating canon, and present themselves as such, often with overtones of superiority. Sometimes it is fun for me to play with them, sometimes not. I take it day by day. Hermes' is, to use a bad pun, mercurial. In real life, when someone sniggers at me, I find it disrespectful, hard to deal with, and irritating, and unfortunately that has carried over into my preferences in who I role play with. I withdraw.

Editor's Note: ........... WHAT. "I stopped RPing with you because you sniggered." Translation: "Even though I just bashed other people for having trouble distinguishing between IC and OOC, I just blatantly showed you that I am fucking insane and have the exact same problem, only stupider."

Kali always makes a big deal about being honest and direct, which is code for "I'm going to bash you openly to your face now."

I do really like Hermes, and yesterday was an absolute blast to read. I'm just no longer sure how to have Frank talk to him because of the above. You are obviously a scholar of Greek mythology, and therefore I'm always fascinated to read your OOC comments, etc. You bring fun chaos into the community.

Editor's Note: Well hell yeah she's a scholar.

Hermes-mun is a double major in Political Science and Classical Studies. She is doing her thesis on how political trends mirror the rise of the Hermetic cult, and spent the summer as a Latin translator for the university she attends. Um, this will be relevant later.

I am not trying to tell you how to write your character; I would never do that, unless a character broke the rules at Sages, and then the only thing a moderator would say is to just modify their actions within the community, not outside it. This is not meant to be a personal attack on you. I respect you enough to want to let you know.

On an aside, I've been invited into so many other RPGs since I brought Frank to Sages, and I've had to refuse almost all of the invites, because I can't juggle ten games aside from the ones I'm already involved in, and I like focusing on Sages. I honestly wish I had the time to talk to all of the characters, but that just isn't going to happen.

I hope you don't take this personally. If we can set up a way for Frank and Hermes' to talk, I'd like that a lot. If not, that's OK too. As always, the community is only as good as the writers in it, and the quality of writing at Sages is extremely high, and that's solely due to the players such as yourself.

Hermes-mun:

Totally cool and understandable. I'm a big fan of the "if it bugs you, ignore it" school of thought....and yah, I'm not cool with the IC/OOC fuzzing that's been going on. People really need to simmer, it's just a flippin' game for Pete's sake. Which, if I may add, you do a mighty-fine job at. Frank's dang fun to play with and I love the constant stream of kids he keeps adopting.

It's kinda hard for Hermes to be nice to people, I mean, canonically he's a snotty, lil' brat who alternates between bitter-snippy and happy-puppy-fun-time-joy. I usually try to put an OOC-ish warning at the bottom of any post where he's being especially bastardly.

Right now, Hermes' only priority is to protect those he cares about and prevent any further damage. He did what he could to contain Norman's big-screaming-idiocy and it wiped him right out. Which is why he made a deal with _crawlingchaos and was scary-creepy for a little bit. If Frank wants to talk to Hermes, he's more than welcome. The poor lil' deity is just so tired that he's be extra docile and pleasant...provided he's not going to drag Norman or Spidey out back and shoot them.

So, are we good to go?

Frank-mun:

Hmmm. Well, I guess we might differ on canonical readings of Hermes, because (although my knowledge may be less than yours, I suspect, but a huge amount), I've never read him as snotty. That's interesting. But then I've always liked Hermes and Athena the best out of the Greek pantheon, and read about them the most. I was happy when my friend snuck onto Sages to write Athena. :-) I never see her as a bitch, know what I'm saying? Whereas Aphrodite, definitely a bitch at times. I just never see either Hermes or Athena as snarky, no matter how unkind some of their actions have been in mythology. I guess my take is: they may occasionally be vengeful, but did they really waste time crafting insults? I don't think so, but I guess I better read some more to find out, huh? If you have any reading recommendations, I'd love them.

Editor's Note: Yeah. Your knowledge MAY, JUST MIGHT BE, less than Hermes-mun. Athena isn't a bitch? Cough, Arachne, cough? Medousa? Vying with the other goddesses for the golden apple? But why the fuck are we talking about Athena? Hello, Hermes, witty, clever, sly? Trickster god? God of eloquent speaking?

Also, I was rude above, and I apologize - I meant to include that if Frank or I IC ever do something that annoys you, by all means please tell me so I can alter my play. I'm lucky in that all of the Moderators at Sages have the identical philosophy of experienced RPers: [insert standard Moderator boilerplate language here] if play between characters is not comfortable for the players, better to alter it with an OOC communication and discussion, rather than ignoring it, or subsiding what might normally be a very good RPing relationship.

Editor's Note: Hahahahaha all the other mod DO INDEED have the identical philosophy.

I don't know how long you've RPed. You're an excellent writer. I will share with you something of a personal warning, and you can disregard or listen as you will, because I'm arrogantly assuming you will be interested, and I mean this with the best of intentions: watch out for players that present OOC difficulty repeatedly and cannot seem to stop fighting with other players. I've seen people get surrounded by those types, and sucked into drama, and wind up being miserable, or themselves being manipulated into partisanship. It's very unhealthy. The only way I've ever dealt with it successfully is to disengage. My very first RPing experience was with a large group of people that I didn't know, and I walked into a situation where OOC feuding was rampant, and became readily apparent. It spilled over into character, and made all of the non-involved players miserable eventually. I learned the hard way, and later when I was mentored by more balanced and more experienced players, that message was driven home loud and clear, and I got it.

Editor's Note: O THE IRONY. So does that mean Hermes-mun should have left Sages right then and there? Because god damn, woman, you are fucking shit-for-brains bat crazy.

Also, Kali is in the habit of making up "personal stories" to drive home her point, more notably about "other players" who had problems with her, but resolved them peaceably. The characters were of course played by herself.

Those types of people tend to be what we call the "out of balance RPers." Perspective is lost, and they usually wind up being eventually featured on fandom_wank, and mocked mercilessly. (I hate that community by the way, because it just seems to perpetuate shit slinging and hate. However, if someone is repeatedly featured there, I avoid them like leprosy.)

Editor's Note: "Out of balance RPers" -- is that a technical term? Please, slow down with your obscure jargon. Also amusing: note how she both uses Fandom_Wank as a standard and as a way to impart superiority. Since Kali herself has been featured twice, I wonder if she avoids herself.

RPing for me is a fun and creatively fulfilling pasttime, and I have no time for bullshit. Another thing that's been brought up recently by other players is the, for lack of a better word, tone of play on Sages. The comm was originally started to be comedic, and by god, it still is, very much so, due to the brilliance of yourself and other players. I'm parroting my other mods in saying this, but we're sending out the same message recently: let's keep that in mind. There is also some very serious RPing that takes place, and has been spawned, by the community, and that rocks. We like that so many people have forged RPing relationships because of Sages; it's great to read. But we're trying to get people to tone down the nasty a little while commenting on the board. Not eliminate it, because IC banter isn't always going to be sugar sweet, and we don't expect that, but sometimes it's turning into character relationships and interactions that aren't fun to read on the board. I'll be totally honest: a couple of times I've read things Hermes has said, and thought "wtf? Why?" HOWEVER, I've also gone back and read things that I've written as Frank, and thought "well, that came across as excessively harsh. Whoa. WTF was I doing running roughshod over this character that is sensitive?" It's a totally subjective feeling, I know, but the recent mean level has been brought up by more than one person. So, we're asking people to be sensitive to that, and to evaluate how, for example, sniggering or pulling a gun might affect other players that aren't even being talked to. If that's not clear, let me know. This isn't to say sarcasm, snark, etc should disappear, because hey? What's the community for if not to have characters get insane, but it's gotten a bit out of hand recently, and I for one am not enjoying it. So, we're asking people to be a bit conscious of the willfully nasty for a while. The irony, because I play a character that is very driven and not prone to niceties a lot of the time, huh? I'm applying that to myself, and toning Frank down a bit, although Frank doesn't go out of his way to be that willfully nasty and cutting, in his view at least. Actually, in canon, he never insults, unless it's to flush someone out, in order to kill them. In canon, Frank is both thoughtful and blunt (and yes, he does have a sense of humor, and does feel quite intensely, but doesn't have time for grudges), and I try to capture that, but don't know how often I succeed. Sometimes I don't.

Editor's Note: Just ... my god, what the FUCK kind of crack is she on? And who exactly has been complaining about the "mean" tone? What mean tone? She doesn't provide any examples apart from the "sniggering." Damn you, Hermes-mun, and your accursed SNIGGERING. It's SO MEAN.

To get back to something earlier about RPing styles, in short, my best advice, which I realize is totally unsolicited [I hope you don't hate me for saying this, and again, I don't mean to lecture or come off as condescending] is to avoid feuders [meaning, players, not characters] like the plague, no matter how charming they seem. Your RPing experience will be much more pleasant overall. Unless, of course, you enjoy drama, fighting, etc. :-) I just hate to see people get burned out or not enjoy themselves, and eventually with feuders that ALWAYS happens. They ruin the experience for other people. Yes, there is a ridiculous amount of gossip going around amongst a tiny group of players about the moderators, who we are, what we do, who we write, what we've supposedly done, and when we read or hear it, it's always totally untrue, or bullshit. There have been some truly surreal accusations made against me, and some of my fellow moderators. Fortunately, there are almost sixteen hundred players in the community right now, and only ten or fifteen of them feel the need for drama, and eventually they will probably tire themselves out and leave, or be asked to leave, to quote another mod, if they bring trouble into the community.

Editor's Note: Mmhm. Only 10 or 15. Right.

Note this is the third time Kali warns Hermes-mun off playing with people she dislikes. Note also how she exaggerates actual events to make herself a victim. At this point there may have been all of 2 actual moderators, Kali and Ollie. As I recall, Jack was not active during this point and spent more time on Transgressions.

About Frank and Hermes? We'll just have to see what develops. :-)

Hermes-mun:

And yet another person is dragged into reading more classical lit. *hee!* I don't have the big ol' reading list on me at the moment, but I'll get you a copy soon?

Thanks for the advice about the IC/OOC llama-kins. I'll admit to being a total n00b and yah...I'm not used to this sort of wacky-non-funtimes. For that sort of thing, I just tend to tune out any OOC-issues and try to relate only to their character.

Nor worries about toning down the IC drama/angst/etc. It's already got a fair bit of a back-story so I don't really feel right about re-starting Hermes all over as his happy-skippy self, but I'll try and keep the excess non-happy-tone out of Sages and off center stage.

Honestly, thanks for the info/advice and all that jazz. Feedback is always a good thing.

Frank-mun:

There is always the last resort that if Hermes sniggers, Frank will just shoot him.

Editor's Note: In retrospect, I'm honestly not sure she was kidding.

And yes, I'm totally kidding! ;-) Hey, I think you're doing a great job as a n00b, I had no idea that you were. Just avoid the nut cases. There are plenty of completely balanced players on Sages. Stick with them, and you'll have a great fucking time. And by all means, don't feel constrained to be sugary all the time with Hermes on Sages!

Marv's [Captain Marvel] player is hilarious, by the way. You might enjoy talking to him, and his character, which are both very, very funny. He snuck up on us. I know him from a couple of other games and his Marv is just both spot on and a perfect parody. I also bet Hermes would dig Hiro Protagonist, who just appeared last night. He's a character from the awesome book Snowcrash. I thought Kali's player was going to pass out from excitement. If Adam Warlock ever comes back, that's another one Hermes would probably REALLY like.

Editor's Note: Ha ha ha yes, Captain Marvel's player IS so very hilarious, isn't he, Kali. Hiro Protagonist is ALSO one of her characters. Jesus, what the fuck.