User talk:Platypus

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Revision as of 16:39, 23 August 2019

Since this page has become rather cluttered, I've moved old discussions to the archive pages below. Feel free to leave new messages here. I'll get back to you ASAP!

1 Archives
2 Adult Section and Organization
3 Re: Main Page (2019)
4 Re: Clarification on the Rules
5 Misnamed Page
6 Collaboration on Tales of Illnora?
7 Thanks for the tip.
8 Also...
9 ...On Three Sisters: Remastered
10 Abandoned and Adopted Stories
11 Contacting Other Users
12 Apologies for grammar infractions
13 Issues with External Images
14 Life of a 13 year old probably needs to be dealt with...
15 How did you apply for staff?
16 Family Ties is another story that revolves around underage sex... and has lots of pages
17 Banned story index
18 Re: Main Page Disclaimer & Protections

Adult Section and Organization

Hey Platypus, I've been working on creating categories to help organize stuff better. Could you do me a favor and change the Adult Section's category from System Pages to Category:Story Ratings? That way its classified in with the other Story Rating categories. This was what I was meaning to ask you about before I got side tracked. --Durzan 21:25, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Re: Main Page (2019)

Hey Platypus, I just finished the initial rough draft for the new Main Page (linked in the heading title). The idea is to clean it up a bit and provide a bit more structure by cutting out the links and tables that show off the stories and move them to their own pages. At the same time, I put in spaces and placeholders for additional information that new users would need to know and understand before actively starting or editing pages here. What do you think? Any suggestions? Feel free to edit and add onto it, as while I started the darn thing, I dunno that I can finish it. I am not that good with advanced formatting. Put your feedback on the discussion page, as it will be easier for me to find. --Durzan 07:55, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Hey Platypus, I just finished setting up the necessary sub-pages for the new main page design. Still probably needs some work, but right now, its functional (apart from the lack of content in the Etiquette section -- I need to talk with you and others about what should go in that spot). Could you do me a favor and look it over when you have the time to do so? If everything is good, I'll transfer the contents of the page to the main page as soon as I get a green light from you, otherwise I will continue to update the rough draft page according to what you deem needs to be improved. --Durzan 22:37, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Alright, I updated the new Main Page draft. Re-added in the sample stories, but it should look a bit nicer. Updated some of the story tag templates with different colors, and added the (Abandoned) tag template. Also included notes on what the (Private), (Public), (Do Not Edit), and (Abandoned) tags mean under the Etiquette section. May need to work on the wording a bit.

What do you think so far? Is there anything else that you think needs to be changed or improved upon before I update the main page? --Durzan 18:32, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Since you like the current version and you didn't note anything that needs to be changed, I'll go ahead and transfer the changes to the Main Page. --Durzan 21:23, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Re: Clarification on the Rules

I finally got around to adding the rules to the Main Page (2019), and although the rules are fairly simple in nature, they could use some clarification and/or some rewording for newer people. Rule 1 in particular could use some clarification, as from what I've been able to tell, there are still plenty of remnants of under-age sex in the various adult stories that I've come across (including Rampage).

Since I am familar with the context of the creation of Rule 1 (it came about in part because of rampant stories involving pedophillia, and to a lesser extent because of the rampant use of underage sex in general), it is worth noting that the actual definition of Pedophillia is defined as a having a sexual attraction for prepubescent minors, which is generally legally interpreted as minors being 13 years of age or younger... though that is not strictlItalic texty speaking accurate either. Do note that it is not a general term for being attracted or having sex with a minor in general. Technically, there are at least 3 different terms that describe having sex or being attracted to a minor: Pedophillia (Attraction to prepubescent minors), Hebephilia (Attraction to pubescent minors in early adolescence, typically between the ages of 11 & 14), and Ephebophilia (attraction to adolescences between the ages of around 15 to 19). Further more, the age of sexual consent varies from state to state and country to country, going as low as the age of 14.

Side Note: While I am not saying the rule should be changed, but I feel like it would be beneficial to state things a bit more clearly on exactly where the line is drawn... especially considering that there are still several stories on the wiki that portray underage sex, and that change regarding it could be beneficial if implemented with caution and prudence. The wording of a rule should reflect the actual enforcement that comes along with it, and prudence should be factored in as well. With regards to rule 1, it is worth asking if an outright ban is appropriate verses a soft ban where you judge the severity of the situation on a case by case basis.Not to mention the cases where a character's exact age isn't stated but is implied. A line does need to be drawn somewhere, and while I do think the current line is a good place, I also realize that it is somewhat restrictive in what stories you can tell. Sometimes a story calls for a character to be underage in order for it to work properly, and in such instances what then? Teenage protagonists and victims are a common trope, that while it should be used sparingly, it should still be used at times when it is appropriate and necessary.

Reaffirmation: I do find pedophillia and manipulation of minors for sexual purposes to be abhorrent in thought and practice, and when it comes to stories, I draw the line at incredibly graphic descriptions of child abuse, having sex with prepubescent children, and other such issues. A good rule of thumb for me is If the characters involved they are 15 or older, I can tolerate it, but I intellectually disapprove and find it somewhat distasteful; 13 or younger is despicable and I will turn away and/or report; and if its incredibly violent and graphic above and beyond the usual stuff, I will also report, etc.

Bottom line: I could use clarification regarding Rule 1, for the purposes of updating the Main Page.

--Durzan 09:32, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your quick response, Platypus. Most of what you said is basically stuff I already guessed at, but the way you put it was as straight forward and as clear as it could be presented. When looking at the rule itself, as well as the context surrounding it, I must say that there is still some serious potential for confusion. That means that we are still left with the problem of interpretation and enforcement of Robkohr's request as well as his intent. Fortunately, interpretation of literature is one of my strengths (I am majoring in English after all, and interpreting and understanding texts is a big part of what I've been taught), so I can give some possible insight into this.

First off, I must reiterate that the confusion stems from the use of the term "Pedophillia" being used interchangeably with the term "underage sex" when the two are not actually the same thing. Pedophellia is a form of underage sex, but not all underage sex is necessarily Pedophillia. Legally speaking (at least in the US) when talking about underage sex, Pedophillia is associated with having sex with someone who is 13 years or younger. IE, Pedophillia within that context is dealing with a specific form of having sex with a minor.

Second, Robkohr's is currently (or at least was), as far as I can tell, the systemop for the entire editthis.info service and NOT specifically the admin/systemop for this specific wiki. To reinforce this point, he specifically said "I don't monitor the content on the site" when he initially brought it up. IE, its not usually his job to monitor and deal with the concerns and day to day issues of a specific wiki. He only got involved because someone specifically told him about it, AND after doing some research came to the conclusion that allowing such content was in a legally grey area at best that could cause problems for the hosting website as a whole. If he says something or makes a request, it falls to the wiki admins (IE. you) to interpret and enforce them on each of the wikis. Effectively, RobKohr is the regional manager, while you are the store manager. In other words, the specific rules and policy of the wiki are effectively under your area of authority... meaning that you can interpret, enforce, and change the rules and policies (at least within reasonable confines). If new information is presented on the situation, then logically speaking, you have the power to adjust the policy of the wiki to reflect the new information.

Third and most importantly, when looking at the wording and content of Robkohr's original mandate, it becomes clear that his initial and primary intent was to deal specifically with pedophillia (due to the fact that he specifically filtered a story that was expressly about a person deliberately having rampant sex with 10-year-olds). Based on the contextual evidence that he put a filter in over the story that he censored, we can reasonably conclude that at least some of the contents of that story is where he initially drew the line at. So that means that there is a hard line ban on content that approaches that level of explicitness in the area of underage sex. Since pedophillia is expressly defined as being attracted to prepubescent (IE children who haven't begun the biological process of becoming sexually mature yet; the upper cutoff point for still being prepubescent is age 13), that means that the hard ban on underage sex is at a bare minimum restricting the explicit portrayal of sex with dealing with children who are 13 years old or younger. Such has to be his intent, judging by the context.

The problem is, of course, when he says "If you find any content explicitly related to sex with a minor, please remove it or edit it." Note the points that I emphasized. He phrased it as a conditional request, and didn't clarify. He didn't say what to edit it to, didn't define what he meant when he said "explicitly related" meant, and didn't clarify if he was referring to underage sex as being under the age of consent, under the age where they would have certainly started puberty, and so forth. Is he talking about underage sex in general (which is what it is assumed to mean, and thus that became the current interpretation enforced by Rule 1)? If so, are cases of consensual sex between two minors allowed? These are just some of the questions that you should be asking us and yourself platypus.

He gave a request and you are tasked with interpreting and enforcing it since he didn't specify (thats your perogative, especially since it is fairly apparent that he's not exactly reliable when it comes to trying to contact him). You can gleen from the context of his earlier sentences that he was probably targeting some specific aspects of the story, but that isn't quite certain. In other words, what I am saying is that as the acting admin, YOU need to refine and clarify the meaning of rule 1. Heck you can even relax its restrictions if you want to. There's plenty of wiggle room for it.

Perhaps this should be brought up for further discussion in the General Discussion? But regardless of what you decide, I will uphold those rules, and see to it that the updated main page clearly has those specifications lined out.

--Durzan 20:07, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Misnamed Page

Hey Platypus, I accidentally created a page with the wrong name. Could you delete it? The page Popular was supposed to be called Popular Stories.

Collaboration on Tales of Illnora?

Hey Platypus,

I was wondering if you would be willing to collaborate with me (and anyone else who wants to) on a a new mega-story I started a few days ago. Right now my mind is a bit of a mess on where I want to take the various potential plot threads, how to structure the pages I've written already, the rules for public editing, and so forth.

Are you up for it? I haven't heard back from you. --Durzan 16:37, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip.

Sorry for the trouble. Any further advice you would give to a new poster? I don't anticipate I'll be posting much, but I'd like to avoid stepping on toes when I do. --TheWatcher 07:15, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Also...

Figured you might want to be alerted to the fact that Durzan is posting explicit anal sex with a minor, as in a fifth-grader. TSRM- Take Bayley's shorts off? for reference. I was under the impression that underage sex was strictly forbidden on this site? This is what gives me the impression. I've saved a couple snapshots of pages, in case there's an attempt to delete them after the fact. --TheWatcher 18:07, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

...On Three Sisters: Remastered

Hey plat, thanks for reminding me about this.

The story itself was written before the underage sex ban was put into effect, and was abandoned completely when the author went AWOL three years ago. The original author had noticed that the original had a bunch of broken links and decided to take the opportunity to start over, leading to the second version of the story. However, he never finished transferring over the pages he had already finished, and since the story was private, nobody else had added any new content.

I was not adding any new content to the story, but going through and copying and pasting the missing routes from the original into the remastered version, consolidating a few pages, that sort of thing. I was NOT adding or writing any new content. I was planning and am still planning to go through one by one and update them to fit current standards and try to remove the underage sex by upping the age as you suggested.

On the surface, there seems to be a fairly easy to superficially adjust the story so that it works as the only place where Bayley's age/school year is mentioned is in the opening page (AFAIK), which is where it says she's a 5th grader. I've been pondering how to make the changes on the title page for the characters that need to be aged up without seriously messing up continuity errors in the story like what happened in Rampage and Smutty Sex Romp, but haven't yet come up with any decent solutions. However, upon looking closer, I realized that even with doing an artificial age bump, Bayley's character would still look and act like a 5th grader in all subsequent pages. I dunno about you, but if a character is stated to be 18 in the opening pages and was acting like a 5th grader... wouldn't that make me think that it was a flimsy edit or excuse to hide underage sex? That seems like a morally gray area that the rules of the site do not address one way or another.

If it breaks the rules, then I would have to go through every single page and significantly alter the story, which wasn't my original intent (remember I am just consolidating information, and making grammar/clarification edits, not adding anything new).

Any idea's on a solution for the greater issue?

In the mean-time, I'll gladly up the ages on the MC's sisters in the original post and anywhere else in the story I can find that explicitly makes reference to their age.

--Durzan 19:28, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Abandoned and Adopted Stories

Hey Plat,

Just kinda wondering, what can be done about the many stories that have been abandoned? I know I added to and reworked the status tags for stories when I was working on the Main Page revamp a few months back, but there are a lot of stories that are uncategorized according to the newer system, and there is probably more we can do.

With the (Abandoned) tag, my intent was that a story with the abandoned tag (and thus hasn't been worked on by the primary author) is up for being "adopted" by another more active user.

To reflect this, I recently created and added the new (Adopted) tag to the main page. The idea (which I pulled from CHYOA) is that if someone wishes to continue or maintain a story that has been abandoned for a while, they can attach that tag to the story and basically take up the mantle of the main author. This is to ensure that all abandoned stories have a chance of being worked on and actively maintained. Of course, if the original author returns and starts working on it again, then the adopted author should respect the original author's wishes.

My reason for doing this is that there are many private stories (or public stories that see little activity), that only had one author working on them, and then all of a sudden, the user just stops coming. Those stories just sit there, with no love.

Another thought that I had as a possibility, is that abandoned stories could be edited by anyone, regardless of its original status.

What is your thoughts on this matter?

I ask this, because I've sort of already adopted Three Sisters: Remastered, and I just don't wanna step on any toes.

--Durzan 15:31, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Contacting Other Users

Hey Plat,

I've been trying to contact User:Tapdancingfish (who hasn't been active in two years) but I've had little luck so far. Any leads or ideas on how to go about it? Already tried his skype, and that doesn't work; don't know his/her email address (besides, he/she has already forgotten the password once, so not sure it would be effective anyway). --Durzan 15:52, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Apologies for grammar infractions

Thanks for the input on the pages I submitted. I've fixed a few capitalization mistakes and a missing period. Don't know why I didn't see those earlier. I don't intend on being a heavy contributor, but I would like to expand on a few neglected branches of the Rampage and SSR stories. If I do add more pages I'll be sure to check and double-check grammar before posting.

--Levinyurius 18:28 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Issues with External Images

@Platypus Hey Platypus. Sorry for making your front page look ugly with my text, but I was wondering if you could help me out with something. In my story, Camp Skylight, I tried to insert an image several times. I've done everything that the advanced guide said. When I want to insert an external link that should immediately display a picture on the page, I keep getting reCaptchas which I can't get away from. When I complete a reCaptcha to prove I'm human and not a spammer or a bot, it says that I've done it right. But when I want to save changes to a page with the external link on it, the process of reCaptchas keep repeating itself and thus I can't insert external links, as well as images. Am I doing something wrong, or is this an error from the site itself? --Axagon 19:32, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Created a new subsection to prevent this from cluttering, blocking the quick link, or not getting spotted. --Durzan 23:45, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer in my discussion, Platypus. I tried something else regarding this issue, and I think that the solution lies with the site you use for uploading your image. Beforehand, I used Imgur to implement pictures in my story. That just wouldn't work, so I used an alternative, TinyPic. This time it worked! --Axagon 21:44, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Life of a 13 year old probably needs to be dealt with...

While browsing through the recent changes page, I noticed that a new user, User:Bigboi1216, was creating and editing pages for that story, which if I recall correctly is a story that completely revolves around underage sex. Naturally that is against the site rules. Since he is a new user who seems enthusiastic about adding to certain stories, I figured that he may not have neccesarily seen the rules on the front page and gave him a friendly heads up about the no underage sex rule, and let him know that the particular story he was working on is old and bloated and has practically been rendered off limits till it can be effectively dealt with. With that being said, It might be worth talking to him about this yourself.

As far as the story itself goes, it should probably be dealt with in some form or fashion. If it were a small story with only a few pages dealing with it, and an ambiguous title, then I'd have taken care of it myself. But there's 400 pages I'd have to go through and there's a rather blatantant title I don't have the power to change... so not sure if thats something I have the ability to reasonably deal with. I suspect this is the reason why this story hasn't been dealt with and instead given a DNE tag is because of this, and the fact that it has long been listed on the front page.

As a temporary and preliminary measure, I've removed the story off the front page, but that won't prevent others from coming and editing or adding to the story if they know how and where to look. Any ideas? Or should we just let sleeping dogs lie (not necessarily the best choice given how a new user just started adding to a DNE story that currently violates website rules).

--Durzan 01:25, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

How did you apply for staff?

I'm wondering how to apply for a position in CYOS staff.

Not really sure if you are the person to ask about this, or even if this is how its supposed to be done on here, but you are the only active one still regularly on here, and I have to start somewhere. Plus, I figured you could use some help... so letting you know I'm up for the responsibility wouldn't hurt. Not seeing anyone else applying, so I'd figure I would at least give a tentative offer.

I do have experience as both a forum moderator and as a chat moderator on Crunchyroll, plus there's the whole rework of the front page that I did earlier in the year.

--Durzan 23:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Update on applying for staff as well as getting you some deputies: I managed to find RobKohr's talk page on the main site. He seems like he was at least somewhat active over there within the past month or so, as he responded to a relatively recent comment over there.

I went ahead and posted a request that he consider adding new admins for CYOS to help you out, and then offered to serve in a staff position if he found me trustworthy. Also put in a few good words for you and Bunni.

With any luck, Rob will see the message and respond. Even if Rob doesn't see fit to promote me, hopefully he will promote a few other trustworthy people to help you out who are just as active as I am, if not more.

P.S. Would you be willing to vouch for me?

--Durzan 09:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Family Ties is another story that revolves around underage sex... and has lots of pages

Read through a few of the 400 some-odd pages of this story clearly revealed that this story hinges upon underage sex. In one route that I followed, I found that the 9-year-old daughter actively seeks to seduce the dad (Who's the POV character for the route). Later on in that same branch, you find out that the 16 year old first born tried to seduce the dad also when she was younger... and turned to sexually "playing" with the 9-year-old when her advances were rebuffed.

Its a damn shame that this story breaks the wiki rules, because the story itself seems well written and organized. I can tell that the author put a lot of thought and effort into this story, and as an author, I wince at the thought of seeing all that effort go to waste. But, rules are rules, so something needs to be done about it.

Since this is the second big story I've come across that revolves around underage sex, it might be a good idea for us to keep a list of these stories. They are too big for us to manually change to follow the rules, and even if we did so, the entire premise of these stories would have to be rewritten anyway. Probably would be best to make a running list of these types of stories and/or create a new category/index to dump them in while we figure out how to deal with them. If/when a story and its pages gets completely deleted or edited, we can take the story off said list.

Of course, if there's a mass deletion option, that easily solves the problem of cleaning up irredeemable stories, but my best guess is that should only be used as a last resort.

--Durzan 05:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Banned story index

A banned story index wouldn't be a bad idea, though it would have to be restricted if we wish to avoid people flocking to it or deliberately creating stories in said index. --Durzan 07:38, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Re: Main Page Disclaimer & Protections

Hey Plat, I actually kinda liked the disclaimer look for the website introduction. I think User:Tarash‎ had a good idea, though he probably should've asked first before editing it. While I do agree with User:CheapKit's admonition and blocking for essentially reverting your revert (At least that's what it looks like under recent changes), I do think that the disclaimer look should stay... though I think the version without the columns in the disclaimer honestly looks the best. Heck, I'd have done it myself if it occurred to me AND if I figured out how to do it without making it look horrible.

As far as the Main Page goes, I do agree with protecting it, as since it is often the first thing people see when they come to the site, it will be the first target for vandals and trolls. However, the protection does present a problem, as it hinders my abilities to edit out mistakes, make some minor tweaking, and generally see what works and doesn't work. Perhaps only allowing trusted users to edit the main page would be a good compromise? Or if there isn't an easy way to set that up (without help from RobKohr), then maybe we could make a Template:MainPage for it so that we can edit the Main Page behind the scenes, yet still have it be protected on the main page. --Durzan 16:39, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

@@ Line 199: / Line 199: @@
 A banned story index wouldn't be a bad idea, though it would have to be restricted if we wish to avoid people flocking to it or deliberately creating stories in said index.
 --[[User:Durzan|Durzan]] 07:38, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
+== Re: Main Page Disclaimer & Protections ==
+Hey Plat, I actually kinda liked the disclaimer look for the website introduction. I think [[User:Tarash‎]] had a good idea, though he probably should've asked first before editing it. While I do agree with [[User:CheapKit]]'s admonition and blocking for essentially reverting your revert (At least that's what it looks like under recent changes), I do think that the disclaimer look should stay... though I think the version without the columns in the disclaimer honestly looks the best. Heck, I'd have done it myself if it occurred to me AND if I figured out how to do it without making it look horrible.
+As far as the Main Page goes, I do agree with protecting it, as since it is often the first thing people see when they come to the site, it will be the first target for vandals and trolls. However, the protection does present a problem, as it hinders my abilities to edit out mistakes, make some minor tweaking, and generally see what works and doesn't work. Perhaps only allowing trusted users to edit the main page would be a good compromise? Or if there isn't an easy way to set that up (without help from RobKohr), then maybe we could make a [[Template:MainPage]] for it so that we can edit the Main Page behind the scenes, yet still have it be protected on the main page.
+--[[User:Durzan|Durzan]] 16:39, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

User talk:Platypus

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