Talk:Story : The Three Lions Inn
From Ars Magica
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Important Notice
While I'm happy with how our first experiment in wiki posting is proceeding, for plot reasons, I would like all players to refrain from posting on behalf of the NPCs for a little while, for plot reasons.
Editing Notes
Sub-headings
The headings are fairly arbritrary; feel free to change, add, or remove them. They are there to make it easier for us to read and edit the story, however at the moment, it rather appears that it assigns certain parts of the story to certain characters. Anyone can post anywhere.
Setting Notes
The Inn is a two storey timber frame structure built over a stone basement. The ground floor rooms have low ceilings supported by sturdy wooden beams. There is no fire in the hearth. There are two serving girls, one of whom is called "Roan", the other "Lucia".
The ground floor has two main living rooms for the patrons to use, though on this day, only one of the two is in use.
As it is the Sabbath, there are fewer people on the road, and most of those taking supper are enjoying a day long break in their journey down Watling street, and beyond. Please note, the Sabbath is a Saturday, not Sunday, and the issue of whether or not it is still a day of rest at this time isn't something I've managed to find a conclusive statement on, one way or the other. For the time being, I'm assuming that Saturday is a day of rest, and Sunday is a day when special services are held.
Mealtimes: Once the guests are sat at the empty table, the serving maids will sprinkle it with strewing herbs, and then bring out bowls of water for the characters to wash their hands, after which they will bring platters of food. Guests will be expected to provide their own cups and knife. Forks exist, but are considered vulgar. Neighbours may share cups if they choose.
Errata
If you amend the text so something below no longer applies, then please delete it from the list, or move it into the 'Old Errata' section, below. Please use sub-headings.
Unresolved Issues
Continuity : Arrival Times
There is a six hour period between Marcus' arrival and Bedo's in which the seven of us (counting mundanes but not animals ( :-) )) have to wait. At what point do the last two paragraphs of Eirlys' section and the Preparations section take place? --Rencheple 04:35, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- Talking of time... Bedo arrives near dusk, Longinus Shortly after dusk and then Eirlys A bit before sundown. If I'm reading this correctly, Eirlys arrives hot on the heels of Bedo, with Longinus not so long after - possibly while she is upstairs? Could we get a clarification please, or something? Ta. --Perikles 06:46, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- Good point - I'd read that as Eirlys arriving first of the three, then Bedo, then Longinus. Do we swap the descriptions, or the order? --OldNick 06:54, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- If we change the order of the posts, then we'll have to adjust some of the NPCs actions. If the players don't object, I'd recommend that we change the character's order or arrival and have Eirlys arrive just after dark. --Rencheple 13:30, 14 March 2006 (PST)
Yes, the Eirlys post should be moved/altered so that it we need to do the least alteration overall to maintain continuity. I like this suggestion. --James\\Talk 16:31, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- The entrance of Eirlys being before or after Longinus might be quite important. I get the impression already that Longinus and Eirlys are going to have a somewhat ... abrasive relationship. It won't be helped if the first time they meet he starts telling her off - which is a likely event if he should be there and she makes an entrance matching her current exploits.
Otherwise, I'm happy for the entrances to be in any order. I only put Longinus' entrance after dusk because that made it easier to resolve the timing issues at that stage. He'd not be impressed at his own lateness I think. ;-) - Corbon
Old Errata
Period Clothing
Not that it matters, but I don't think that bodices were much in use (if at all) in the 13th century, they're a later period innovation. Essay on 13th century clothing - JBforMarcus.
- Ah, ta! Bodice is one of the words in the list of 13th Century terms from the Brother Cadfael books I posted on this wiki recently, so I simply assumed... :) This has been corrected.
Inn in Period?
As, for that matter, are this sort of inn - but for game purposes they are very useful. --OldNick 06:28, 13 March 2006 (PST)
- From the research I carried out, this sort of Inn can be found in major towns, and this particular inn is based off of a late 13th/early 14th century ruin near the south coast of England. Out in the sticks, an inn would be a fairly small, one storey affair, with just one room for drinking and the like, and no real accommodation, or food. While the latter is more realistic, it presents certain logistical problems that the gift complicates significantly. As the inn lies on such a heavily-travelled, and well-known road, and in a manor that has just had a fair bit of money splashed upon it by the king, I decided to push my luck a bit by upgrading it, er, slightly. :)
I was wondering about that, but they are soooooo useful as a plot device. Let's just assume that the Innkeeper is ahead of his time when it comes to stuff like that - heck, why else would the balif and his men make it a hang out?--Rencheple 07:25, 13 March 2006 (PST)
- The Bailiff wouldn't (?) normally frequent the inn, but today for some reason, he needs to be around people. Maybe he is simply joining his men for a bit of revelry because they find it hard to let their hair down at the manor?
Discussion
Current Discussion
Old Discussion
Formatting Latin
Any chance we can agree to put all Latin, and only Latin, in italics, so as to differentiate to the reader? --Rencheple 14:09, 13 March 2006 (PST)
- There are <m>lots</m> <m>of</m> <m>ways</m> to format text on a standard mediawiki, so it is just a case of a bit of experimentation, to find a way that hasn't been disabled by the host. :D
- There is a lot of other formatting I'd like to put on this page, for instance, I'd like to add page margins via an invisible table so that it isn't super-wide on large monitors, but haven't so far, because lack of code makes it easy for anyone to edit, and I don't want to discourage anyone from editing. :P You are free to put any formatting, tags, etc. that you like on the page. --Ars Magica 18:06, 13 March 2006 (PST)
- Could not whoever uses a super wide screen get to decide that for themselves? Adjusting the window width or some setting in the browser should have the same effect, and give the reader the choice. --Samuel 05:09, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- I'll be using italics for latin myself - as long as I actually remember - though I'll try to make it clear which language I am speaking anyway. --Perikles 06:46, 14 March 2006 (PST)
How do I colour text?
Any idea how to color the text of a given post? I was thinking that it might be nice if I could make my additions all a maroon or navy blue...--Rencheple 18:21, 13 March 2006 (PST)
Colour Code
This is the code referred to above:
<font color=red> RED TEXT </font> shows RED TEXT
<span style="color:red"> RED TEXT </span> shows RED TEXT
There is now a link to a colour chart with 140 colour names that can be used with the above commands in the OOC Editing Quick Reference table.
--James\\Talk 16:31, 14 March 2006 (PST)
Make mine a double.
You know, maybe I should give Eirlys a Blatant Gift. It's just too much fun to be creepy and mess with people :) --Eirlys 14:48, 13 March 2006 (PST)
- Nooooooo! Trust me, Eirlys doesn't need any more friends... You've already got the locals wondering where your pitchfork is. Thankfully, Eirlys is a Muto-Corporum bunny*, so rather than fretting for her longevity, I merely have to fret for the NPCs around her. :P --Ars Magica 17:50, 13 March 2006 (PST)
*her speciality, her groovy thing, etc.
Heresay and Rumour
- Ummm...that would be my fault, sorry. I just couldn't resist speakin on behalf of the poor guy. Feel free to change that section as you desire, James. --Rencheple 04:38, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- Is that the curious little posting by 210.237.238.22 ? or have we acquired an anonymous commentator?
- Well, it's someone in Japan, so probably James. But speaking of that... huh?? It seems like if anything such information would be added as exposition after an attack is made, but uh... okay. --Eirlys 09:51, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- Ok, the section below was not of my doing. I just did the part with the innkeeper drinking the whiskey (which I could really use right now, I might add.) --Rencheple 20:29, 14 March 2006 (PST)
| The anonymous post in question was:
"Leaving Eirlys to her own devices he went and retreived his special bell, the one which had been personally blessed by the Pope himself and caused wracking agony to any with even the slightest bit of faerie blood who heard it. Along with was a nasty hooked iron poker. The poker was nothing special - but when shoved into certain places it was quite effective. Little did anyone suspect that the innkeep's marvelous acting had been a simple sham. He was in fact very used to being around faeries having being kidnapped by some when he was a small child and brought up as their pet. Years later he had escaped and taken with him an intense and burning hatred of them, as well as special knowledge. From that day forth he had dedicated his life to destroying faerie kind." |
|
This is a protest post, and illustrates the author's complaint rather deftly. The author has created an addition which takes control an NPC, resolves multiple, significant in-game actions, is contrary to the established attitudes and reality of the character, and involves a convenient coincidence that works to the writer's advantage (ie. they want the NPC to wreak vengeance upon the fae, and it just so happens that he a) has the motivation, b) has the tools to do it, and c) knows what to do. The post is an imperfect mirror image, and I don't feel that any further public dissection is necessary. I think this situation occurred due to a difference in expectations of what the game, and post-writing, would entail, and that's part of the experiment that comprises this first story. I'm sure that Sally didn't realise what was going on, and I hope we shall be able to proceed more harmoniously henceforth. I think it is only to be expected that we have different perceptions of what can be included in a post, but I don't think it will take long for everything to be groovy. Another aspect to protest posts is that they are often written out of a perception that something bad is happening in the game, and the storyguide is either acting ineffectually, or doing nothing to correct the problem. I am well aware that just as you judge one another's posts, you are also judging how I respond to matters that arise, and I assure you that the responses I had already undertaken, IC and OOC, were appropriate. I can't say I have a great gift for subtlety, but I did try to resolve the OOC issue of posting without singling out a specific player, even though it was readily apparent (though somewhat muddied by the worries of players unused to as much freedom regarding player-direction of NPCs, and their use of it, which is perfectly understandable). When I clamped down on the NPC direction, I dodged questions regarding exactly what had caused me to do so, and began to gently redirect the action back to where I wanted it. I felt that by removing the players' inability to make that error immediately, I could then gradually reintroduce player-direction of NPCs later, with clear guidelines for the extent of such direction, thus fixing the problem without upsetting anyone. As stated above, players do not currently have the ability to direct NPCs, but I will be introducing it again, once certain matters of plot have been resolved. My private email address and talk page are always at your disposal for resolving matters, checking whether I'm in the process of resolving matters, criticising my methods, or persuading me of the sensibility of a certain course of action. |
p.s. Don't you Brits know how to spell Rumor? :-) Sheesh! You'd think you spell everything that way, lke Color or Catalog! --Rencheple 20:31, 14 March 2006 (PST)
James: "You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against an English language teacher when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!"
James: [James stops suddenly, and falls dead to the right]
--James\\Talk 21:49, 14 March 2006 (PST)
Regarding the anonymous post and James' explanation of it: I decided to play up Eirlys' prankster personality in our initial post to give a bit more color toward characterisation. If playing a mischievious unseelie type causes an issue with other players, whether for in-character reasons or OOC, I'd rather create a different character which would make a better addition to the covenant as a whole than cause problems with other players. Please feel free to just let me know if anyone feels there's a character conflict-- Eirlys can be stuffed in the box to be played for a later game if anyone objects to her. --Eirlys 23:24, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- While Longinus will have issues, I actually would prefer some character conflict. As long as people don't take it personally it adds spice. And its not like half a dozen or more random strange people are likely to all get on together without issues is it? Please keep Eirlys, and feel free to play a love/hate, or hate/hate relationship with Longinus. Just don't take any of his complaints or comments personally. - Corbon
- JB here - I do have an issue, but it's not with Eirlys per se ... rather it's with basic assumptions about the setting and game play. So a new heading below. Oh, and I'll log in.
- I have no issue with ANY kind of character OOC and anything IC will have to surface by itself. Personally, I quite like Merinita and faerie stuff, but wanted a change this time, otherwise I'd probably be walking down a blatant gift, strong faeire blood road myself, cowering under a massive cloak and avoiding churches like they were... well churches. OOC I don't care if a character is demon tainted, a murderer or a heathen moor. However, if the character is OBVIOUSLY a major problem from the word go, there is a very strong chance that they will not end up being invited to join the Covenant. Anything that surfaces AFTER we have set the Covenant up is a totally different matter and we are lumped with it. It would be a GREAT shame for anyone to put in a lot of work into character creation and background and then have to slate it.--Perikles 06:29, 15 March 2006 (PST)
Basic Assumptions About Setting
JB again, as promised. Although Marcus will be locking horns with Eirlys regularly and immediately, I suspect, we can deal with it in game - that's fine. As Corbin says, as long as we remember that it's Marcus and Eirlys clashing not their respective players.
However, my concern is that we may be working with different assumptions about the game world and setting. Or rather, we all certainly are, which isn't a huge problem unless they are widely divergent. Eirlys' entrance worries me, because it implies a substantially different view of the world than mine, and if that's the correct one, I need to recalibrate. The idea that a satyr shows up, an obvious satyr, talking to a polecat who talks back, and that the innkeeper, inn staff and patrons just put up with it with almost nary a murmer doesn't fit with my perception and understanding of Mythic Europe - which admittedly may look more like Medieval Europe than many people's. I would expect that people would be fleeing in terror, probably to the Church, raising the hue and cry, and if this is Eirlys' typical approach (joking about eating babies?) that she would already have been killed by mob several times over long before reaching this point. From the Mythic standpoint, such behaviour also seems to me to be clear violation of the Oath - endangering the Order through her actions and so on.
I'm willing to believe that I may be the outlier here, but as I say, if that's the case I'll need to recalibrate my expectations and play style.
- It's a very fair point and one I have quite a lot of sympathy with. Had the game been set in a distant land (The Levant perhaps) I'd probably take the 'foreign country is weird' Shakesperian approach ('Fair Illyria' is really strange - except that everyone behaves like Englishmen there), blink once, and ignore the apparent oddity. When I first read Eirlys' arrival I did think "is this going too far?" but by the time I was thinking about commenting, the baby-eating had been toned down, and we were down to the issue of the locals reaction to a satyr.
- At that level, I've got much less of a problem with the way it was written, and with my reaction to Mythic Europe as against Medieval Europe. We know that at the moment, the innkeeper has 'accepted' seeing what he saw without butchering the strange demonic creture with cloven hooves - who knows what he may do, or who he may talk to when she's not looking.
- So yes - I'll probably be having to do a similar bit of recalibration too - but its not one that worries me as long as it doesn't go much further when dealing with the mundane world. --OldNick 05:59, 15 March 2006 (PST)
- Frankly, the basic settings of the world and the way that the NPCs react are in the hands of the GM. I think we'll all be getting a feel for things as the campaign gets under way and I'm sure James can fill us in with any basic questions that WE don't actually know, but our characters really should. After all, we don't live in the Middle Ages and we aren't exepcted to be experts.--Perikles 06:35, 15 March 2006 (PST)
